allois-transy:
intersex-ionality:
butts-bouncing-on-the-beltway:
goodpositivitylgbt:
No, no, you’re right there. Femme isn’t for NB people. Feminine is.
I just don’t want to get tangled in this particular brand of discourse, especially as my say in it is negligible.
MH
……femme has literally always been a word that lesbian and bisexual woman SPECIFICALLY shared with men and nb folks? It’s historically been one of the major pieces of terminology that gender non-conforming people of many varieties had access to?
Where the fuck is this idea that only women can use femme coming from, my god????
It’s coming from the same place as any other term cis lesbians want to cut out from everyone else in this community: overcompensation for past trauma and extreme exposure to normalized radfem rhetoric.
It’s not entirely the fault of young lesbians who rely on this website for their social outreach. They are just parroting hateful information they’ve been told by sources they think are reliable. Literally they do not know any better.
It’s still bullshit.
And the “sources” of this stuff are all toxic assholes who absolutely should feel bad for rewriting everyone’s history in a way that benefits them and robs everyone else of our contributions and destroys any semblance of solidarity.
But hey, I’m just a gross greedy pansexual, so what would I know.
It’s also a very American-centric discussion. I’ve mentioned before, but femme / en femme has historically been used in many places in Europe more to refer to gender non-conforming, non-binary and transfemme people due to it being, you know, a loan word (having origins in Latin) meaning “as a woman” or “like a woman”. Just look at the femminiello, in Neapolitan culture
Same with butch. The terminology has been used in Polari referring to ALL masculine-presenting people (yes, usually referring to masc-women, but not always, sometimes it referred to straight-passing men) since the mid-late 1800s.
Also, because I haven’t seen it mentioned yet in this conversation: femme is a term that is hugely important to communities of color.
As an intersection of gender, presentation, and race, femme absolutely includes straight women, queer men, and any trans or nonbinary person for whom the label is useful.
Trying to claim it’s lesbian-only is both generally racist, and has specific extra servings of antiblackness.
Sorry this wasn’t in my original comment. I needed to gather some sources for this one, on account of my not being Black and the use of “femme” in this context being especially common in Black culture(s).
As Mod Holmes is white, though, I really don’t feel comfortable letting this continue unremarked upon.
https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/an-act-of-knowing-moving-towards-a-black-femme-politic/
http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2013/01/201312musings-from-a-queercrip-femme-man-of-color/
http://www.qwearfashion.com/home/14-femmes-of-color-whose-style-we-adore
http://wearyourvoicemag.com/identities/race/know-keep-white-girl-kyrie-irving-hatred-black-women
http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2014/07/rollersets-realness-black-womanhood-defined-drag-performance/
http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2015/09/defining-your-gender-as-a-black-queer-femme-is-revolutionary-dont-take-that-away/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/27/whatfemmelookslike_n_5890738.html
I’m a femme of color.
I am not a woman, and demanding I identify as one just so I can continue to express my identity in the way that is most useful to me- a way that denotes where I fall in a sexist society without necessarily conflating myself with womanhood- is a mess and a half.
Femme is for anyone who has been injured by the sexist concept of femininity, both because it was forced on them, and because it was denied to them. It is a reclamation effort that can and should be used by anyone who needs it.
That includes lesbians, in fact one of the most obvious ways to be victimized by the toxic concept of femininity is to be a lesbian.
It also includes trans women.
It includes women of color. Men of color. People of color.
It includes GNC and queer men.
It includes people whose experience with white, COGAP society is one of forced hyperfemininity. It includes people whose experience is one of forced hypermasculinity.
It includes anyone against whom “feminine” and “womanly” have been used as a weapon, and who have looked at that weapon and said, “not today, asshole” and stolen it back.
So yeah, it absolutely includes nonbinary people.